Wolves???

Sure why not. You may need to begin a new thread about this one. I love to discuss it with you and everybody else.
Just like the way you think, I agree your opinion about the CC removal.

Go a head, f_b

 

Yes, please please open a new thread.
This is VERY important.
I wish we would have some economics majors in the EN forum to explain some of the stuff to us less knowledgeable players.
I am unfortunately not one. I do think that the dev team is listening to what is said in this forum. And a good explanation as to how certain dynamics work together might really make a difference.

The dev team has started to pay more attention to the market, but they overshoot by far in my opinion.
Too radical and too quick.

I always enjoyed playing the market to some degree, but I am not here to be a broker after all.
I would prefer ways to make a little CC's here and there and would be happy about a little extra when I get lucky and my barn is having the needed crops for an event and some to spare to sell. Oats selling at 30 CC's is great during an event... it is roughly the double of the normal price. Sorghum at 110 on the other hand is far too much, if you ask me.

Asking for 60 wolves seems okay though, the prices will adjust over time (once more people get a chance of getting a wolf stall and others finish the quest). It is still very rare. And giving secret seedlings and stablemasters as rewards is quite important from my point of view. It is one way of giving people that do not pay a chance to get some of the rare animal stalls/trees. And everybody should have ways to achieve and get everything they want in time.

My opinion and I am single player, not a Mod. And certainly no specialist.

Removing CC's?
The way all the prices go up due to events removing vast amounts of crops, products, etc., I would say that more CC's should be introduced at this point. If not this overdrawn dynamic might indeed just suffocate the Market. No CC's to go around, we would have to barter, especially at those prices.
In my opinion the dev team should slow down, make smaller adjustments when needed. Or they should make us all richer!
And I prefer the first option of those two. Because unfortunately in this game as in RL there are CC hoarders (like having them sit in a bank), which is just like not having those CC's in the game circulation at all.

Again, I would love to see a thread about that subject and hopefully some more competent people than me will participate in analyzing the situation. If I would have an adequate title for that thread, I would open it straight away. I hope to see it soon. Maybe in the suggestion thread... I would hope the devs personally would be more likely to read it this way.

 

If you don't mind, farmer_broke, I'd like to add a little personal experience to your conclusion on the benefits and returns of donating a Bee-u-tiful Bee (or other highest end animal) to the Soup n Friends quest.
My personal choice to donate the Bee (purchased, not bred) to the quest was not for the money or the star you mentioned and of which I had not taken notice - but it was to advance toward the ultimate goal toward which this game is structured to lead us all - including yourself. This you demonstrated most admirably, making us all feel proud of your achievement, in your run for the Top 1000....The absolute pinnacle of this game's structure. (You also confirmed and proved your own point about removal/recirculating CC's by donating over half a Billion CC's(yes - Billion)to that end.)
The point of the purchase/donation to this Bee Quest was the millions of EP's given as reward, to advance in Levels-up in the game structure. Almost everything in this game is based on Level of the player - at what level we may do this or buy that. Always upward, with always increasing rewards. To the pinnacle which you - and others here who achieved this also - ultimately achieved.
Was it worth it to donate the BEE?? Having done it, I'd say - yes, it was. (And I also contributed my share to your observation of removal of CC's.)
Your observations, and those of others, are always informative and enjoyable, and I appreciate this opportunity to add just a little to them. Thank you.
After all, as you say...it is only a game. And they are only CC's - which is part of what we pay for to enjoy this game - if we pay anything at all.

 

Farmlily your point regarding advancement via ep reward is very well taken. And you see so clearly the removal of ccs in that run for the Top 1000. Think of the millions that were dumped and worse than that, I was easily prepared to dump 3 times more. What we cannot even see are the billions that were removed from the game by those contributing to the Top 1000 and not achieving it.

Your desire for ep with the Bee-u-tiful bee can be applied to our discussion and is an excellent illustration. I did not offer additional ep in the above discussion and that is exactly what appears to have attracted you to donate the bee. The developers used this aspect to attract you and they did and I am not saying a single thing is wrong with it either. My point is to realize this is being done and we may as well know it and consider it in our decision making. And then only if we choose.

And you were awarded a star too. The game continues to reward stars. Some complain or do not see the reason behind it. So people trade a bee for a few ccs, ep, and a star while knowingly or unknowingly participating in cc/stock removal. And what problem does this create for developers? The stars! The stars must be removed also AND THEY WILL BE. (Why not trade you a lot of worthless stars for a new island access and guide one to think it is a big deal? hint hint.) BINGO, stars go... and round and round and round we go. Next problem for the team is then how to eliminate whatever the island generates.

Want more worthless ep? Just buy the craft products which generate it. You get more ep points, the crops are removed from the game as you donate them. I am level 84 I think. And hold enough ep generating craft products to level up whenever I feel like it. Or, well you know......time it right and May I help you find what you are looking for?

@SillyGuy

Removal of ccs is an excellent place to begin looking. There is more that is being accomplished at the same time. For instance, this event is making a call for oats. Oat prices have been depressed for quite a while now when comparing it to the time to produce them vs. the time to produce hay. Hay was profitable to produce in half the time it takes to produce oats. This call is affecting the future price of oats also by removing cheap oats. And that adjustment will be seen in the craft product market segment and the animal feed market segment. And not immediately.

I'm curious about something.

Do you know ALL the uses for lettuce? Regardless of what the answer is, the question is not at all meant to poke fun or to criticize. I care enough about our family here to provide an answer that will assist if necessary.



Got a deal for ya. And teddy.bear should not mind this one.

I'll trade you the information how to get this information

for a single Flower Arrangement



Before you answer, and since this is SillyGuy

Not only will I explain how to get that information for lettuce.

But get this

FOR EVERY SINGLE CROP, ANIMAL, PRODUCT ..... IN ....

well

THE ENTIRE GAME

and all for single price of ....



well



A Flower Arrangement that you will send to my farm wife, tlcmom



This will save me a lot of trouble and I will forever be indebted to you


Deal?

 

The events are influencing the in-game value of crops, animals, etc. but no CC's are removed. Not even with the chestnut festival.
CC's just get swapped around between the players that sell crops and the ones that buy them from the market to pay into the quest, but they are staying in the game.

Removing actual CC's from the game is probably more tricky than most people might think.
On the other hand there is a constant removal of CC's already implemented:
That is when players buy the cheap seeds, trees or animal stalls in the shop as they are giving these CC's directly back to BP.

Right now as the team seems to have decided to raise some of the in-game prices, more CC's will be necessary to keep the wheel spinning (higher prices mean that players need more CC's to buy the necessary things).
A similar result could probably have been achieved by removing CC's and leaving the prices lower instead (but that is more difficult to achieve).

There are already events existing that were created specifically to achieve a removal of CC's and to raise the value and demand/interest again of some other goodies at the same time.
But of course for players to part of their precious CC's to give them to BP, BP has to give something valuable in return and they do not seem to want to do that.

I really hope that the dev team will change their minds about that one day. Because this way they could actually be generous with CC rewards as much as with some of the other rewards.

 

@jennifersiegel

Do you think for even a moment that anyone contributing to the Top 1000 did not aid in the removal of ccs from this game? If so, I suggest you compete and you will see this entirely differently.

Do you think that by milling the item for the current event and donating does not have the effect of removing ccs from the game?

I agree to the point that an additional objective is to create a price balance. And it is being done with oats and sorghum in this event.

Say the developers decide it is now time to crash the markets. And they can do it! Will the rewards then be satisfactory for you?

I agree this must be done slowly. But it also must be done with purpose and the data is available to plan and execute, and they do it. This is a simple aspect of the game development process.

Production and harvest information and stocks of any item we choose to discuss is available at the push of a button. And the corrlations with every other item to match and by specific forum, market, age, sex, month, time of day, .....

Wolves? Easy for developers to set frequency of pen distribution and by market.

Each and every single time any of us participate in an event we part with ccs. Not all ccs are sitting in a bank earning exactly -0- .

No no no, thus far developers have not asked for 5 ccs for a star. hahaha They provide the permanent opportunity for a player under level 10 to donate 150,000 cc at market value for a star and a reward.

Now to rest my case with cc removal beyond the shadow of a doubt:

Are ccs being direct removed from the game when a listing is made for an item to sell on the market?

 

Farmer_broke, I could not remember the one star and 1 million CC's to which you have referred as being the reward for donating the BEE to the Soup n Friends Quest, so I went back to the Quest to see what I actually received in addition to the mega EPs for which I had donated. *Please refer back to the previous post in this section.*

This is what I found: 1400 super grow; 60 Power feed; 3,500,000 Main farm EP's; 1,000,000 Bahamarama EPs; and 3 Stars.

"A few CCs, ep, and a star"? I think not. And, sorry - not one CC in the whole lot.

This was enough to give 5 level-ups in BAHA and a Main farm level-up, saving me much time and many resources, which, in turn, equate to many CC's in addition to those other benefits, some of which I am still enjoying and others which, because of the higher levels, will continue to benefit my enhanced game into the future.
I am satisfied with the donation, and would do it again. As I will be for some of the other tasks (not all) in this same Quest.

 

Farmlily, you are absolutely right about the rewards for the contribution to the Soup n Friends Quest. Even if one were to contribute it to the un-bee-libeable quest my cc mention of 1,000,000 is inaccurate. I was thinking of ccs received on other quests for the donation of top breeding animals. I am clearly wrong with the cc numbers regardless of which of the quests top bees are donated to.

CCs are still removed from the game. They are removed because the breeding animal is removed and in effect or equivalently, over 60,000 base animals (can be higher or lower if skips or not).

In no way am I suggesting that your satisfying the quest is bad, no way. My point is to realize what is going on here, whether viewed good or bad from a player's standpoint or from a developer's viewpoint. Ok, you are happy. And that is a very important thing.

I want to do something here. And I am in no way suggesting you are wrong in anyway. Every action in this game has market effects associated with them. Some effects are immediate and some are latent and some last longer than others. I do not want to make a push for market playing either. I'll play developer_broke and will use the animal you donated. Here we go:

I create the demand for the bee-u-tiful bee. Hope I can get a few. How can I get these farmer's interested?

Let me go fishing. I'll bait my hook with:

1,400 super grow. --- I'll get it back with the next few events. Oh my .... better than that!
The farmer will like that super grow so much that they will open their RL bank vault and buy more. (this is a business ya know)

60 power feed. --- That will give me more breeding animals to have to take away. I can do it though. I'll just make an event calling for breeding animals. The farmer will use the 60 power feed and I have another chance to get into that RL bank vault so they will buy more. I'll even have a power feed sale.

3,500,000 farm ep --- That seems like a lot. Big deal. I can make levels up to 100, 200, 300, or 10,000. No big problem and few consequences. This will keep um motivated too.

1,000,000 Baha ep --- Already have players set up doing things for golden bananas. Give me that breeding animal so I can take these ccs out of the game and with the animal goes all the power feed to get it and the animal feed components too. Oh yeah, and I can play a little with buffs too. I know they use um. Maybe I need to sell some sugar or salt .... and on and on Baha ep, no big deal to solve for me... I want that bee though! I know farmers are discussing it. I'll get around to um.

3 stars --- what the heck! Once I get that bee I can get those stars back. I'll give um some land for the stars or maybe even an island under water. No worry here.

Uh Oh, gotta bite.... first bee of the day.

Gonna keep that hook baited

Although a very crude example, the above is a very small part of the overall picture. Many do not see it nor do they care. And this is okay too. I see complaints after doing all that farming because people have little or nothing. And that is game design of this nature.

And there is the cinema with its game effects and RL advertising revenue effects too.

I'll use myself as another example. Here is a player who is paying the market thinking he will get somewhere. The developers allow people playing as I do to gather wealth in the form or ccs or a barn full of junk. I think I have over 500,000 Oats left for this event. Okay, I make a few ccs and spend. I gather more junk. The developers generate a Top 1000 event. For whatever the reason, I get sucked in. Donate millions worth of junk. So I stay in, millions of ccs are removed from the game in all forms, and what do I get? Some cloud row or something and some mystery stables I think. Ah cloud!!!!!! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? I don't even have the stalk unlocked at level 84. hahahahahahahahaha When I'm ready and of course I know what it does for me as a farmer and how it is used in the game.

And I use the knowledge to play the market and I know the game is designed to take it away and keep me broke. And now I have a new goal and will keep playing and this madness continues.

And wolves are just another animal with an immediate demand and a future. And I need to get into somebody's bank vault because a I have 1.8 million ccs in wolves on the market. Not a single wolf pen though.

Will you please send me 128 wolf pens during the next gift and trade? Only 128.

Want your head to swell? Put the above and exchange value and your knowledge of the game together and it will swell.

 

I am not a Mod and I am not a dev. I am just one player with one theory and please correct me if I am wrong (I love the input):

What does removing something from the game actually mean for BP?
From my point of view it might mean exchanging it for something else to being able to delete it from the system.
It means players have to give it to BP. As long as something is in someones barn or on an in-game account like CC's and stars it is part of the game and the system needs to keep track of it.
To remove something from the game, players have to decide by themselves to give that something back to BP (like the wolves in the quest or breeders).

Were CC's removed for the TOP 1000?
Yes a view extra... maybe...
Of course the dev team could look at the overall amount of CC's, but there are so many markets out there by now that you might have to hire a bookkeeper to add all of those numbers up... oh, I remember... all the markets are different... oups, all people with loads of sorghum are on holiday... maybe

What did people pay into the TOP 1000?
I tried to find the thread for the TOP 1000 again and couldn't find the list of what you could pay in. Was it possible to pay in CC's directly? With a value of one CC for one CC?
I didn't play it, wasn't worth it and I would not have been able to compete anyhow, because I am rather selling my produce to finance my new little goal (I am one of the people that bought dogs to complete the harvester trophy... my husband wanted it so badly ). I spend the money that I am making pretty constantly.

But I seem to recall not, no CC's accepted)??
Only stuff that could be traded on the market... and tools maybe, decorations too?

How would a player get these things?
Self-produced.
The market... no CC's go back to BP.
Just because I don't have the CC's anymore when I buy something from the market does not mean that the CC's are removed from the system. Instead the amount goes from one account to another. If you sold it to me got the money!
The players can buy some extra crops from the shop (I used to do that every day when I started)... the CC's we pay in the shop are going back to BP and out of circulation! Same as water.
Tools can not be bought with CC's.
Decorations could be bought with CC's in the shop or the pirate bay. Would that actually be worthwhile???
Drops can not be bought with CC's.

And this event?
Stuff from the market, drops, a milling product and an event plant. The market already excluded, none of these can be bought for CC's.

If anything BP is more interested in removing BB's, so that people might buy more. Instead of removing CC's it seems.

As for the wolf I would believe there are more people interested in the wolf now with a quest available. And why not it is more fun now, then just having them sit in barns.

 

I'm sorry, farmer_broke. There are a few parts that escape from your analysis.

The market was just a place to swap a few CCs around between the players. A suitable place to look for materials that are needed makes artisan products, animal products, or other things to complete a quest, especially with the limited space. When offering items at the market you will pay a 10% market fee (that's 10% of the price you are wanting to sell for) at the time of placing your produce up for sale. Nothing more!

The main actor is causing CCs removed is our-own-self, WE ARE THE SELLERS AND THE BUYERS IN THE MARKET. We play the role of price and number of stocks in the market. We keep prices high according to our wants and according to the existing demand. Quest itself (either permanent or timing) causes always high demand for stock of some items required. We do not really care about exchange value of the items when determining the price and what are the consequences.
The dark side of the increase in the price of wheat and oat is the possibility of rising prices of animal feed market segment IMMEDIATELY.
This is one of the shortcomings of the dynamic market system. Prices do not have restrictions when high demand.

Once again, I agree your opinion about the CC removal and make a bit of explanation about it.
Let's say you have offered to sell a Bee-u-tifull Bee for 15 million CCs, market fee : 10% of 15 million CCs is 1.5 million CCs. And someone has bought from you, but you would only get 13.5 million CCs.
It means 1.5 million CCs has removed from the game through market.

In other hand, the game developers did not also intend to remove CCs from the game on their own purpose. Actually it is just to balance the game, of course, they also need a real money so that we also buy more CCs in the game. This is normal!
But you also have to look at some other things that they also give CCs to us free of charge, through small reward from doing a quest, visiting fuzzle, CC item givers, cloud rows, winning farmwheel, or even the most often overlooked is THE LEFTOVER EVENT GOODS.
We ought also to be thankful!

Doing quest for a few CCs, EPs and a few stars? I think not. But I am also satisfied with all those donations, and would do it again and again.
Tips for breeding animals? Very good for beginners who do not know how. But I have my own way. Thank you.
I understand exactly the term exchange value and already know ALL the uses for lettuce. Do not bother! But it can help another here and please go a head to open a new thread. Same as farmlily3 comments, your observations are always informative and enjoyable, and I should appreciate this opportunity to add just a little to them.

As you say, it is only all a game. Have fun and happy farming!

(p.s. I will may send a Flower Arrangement to your farm wife, tlcmom, after current event ends for FREE. I was busy helping my NABs to send pastry bags at the moment.)

 

Sorry for late response. Staying signed on a big problem. RL demanding time too.

BP has many games. Removing ccs for BP itself does nothing. Removing ccs in the game itself allows game developers to have better control of the future direction of the game. The "system" does maintain all sorts of data and it is used a with any online game inn trying to chart the direction of a particular game.

Yes, I agree, to remove something from the game the players must decide. And before they can even decide to donate something the opportunity to donate must exist. When that opportunity is presented to players, the developers have some idea as to how the opportunity to donate and the subsequent donating will affect the game. They is inaccuracy and it is a learning process for them also and the unforeseen can turn in unanticipated game direction changes.

This act can lead to things "getting out of hand" which is tolerable. What is really not desirable is for an action to lead to effects which get "out of control." This is a constant day to day challenge to be met by them. And with so many different age groups and backgrounds.

No one was not able to directly pay RL funds to compete in the Top 1000. Indirectly it was easily possible: Take RL funds, buy BB packages, convert BB to ccs, take ccs and buy on the market, and finally donate what is purchased in ccs which were bought with BBs which were bought with RL funds ......and donate. BINGO! With enough then one is in.

Buying and selling alone (ignoring the 10% commission) does not remove ccs or cc equivalents from the game.

I think I understand what you mean by bookkeeper. None is needed as the data provided is routine and very easy for member of the team to access. All members of the team are not given access to all the data as it judged not useful in the roles they serve. It's too too much for everyone.

This brings me to BOTS which can be very annoying and even disruptive. One detected, they must be removed in order to maintain control of the game. All this fits together into a package which often times is not so neat nor always easy to see.

You mention tools and they must also be periodically removed and they are.

Buying seeds is really not removing ccs. Yes it does change the form from the cc to the seed. The seed can be planted or sold.

Buying and selling trying to achieve cc removal is beyond where we are here at this point and a lot more complex to see.

Growing and/or producing adds potential ccs to the system and this is exactly why there are eliminations.

You are right, just because you had and now may not have ccs DOES NOT mean they are removed from the system. Exactly! It is the act of donating or contributing that certainly does it.

I agree, water removes ccs and does so directly. And what is interesting to note is that many water and are not around to harvest to receive the benefit it time. Giving them away. But the game directors dare not ask for them directly but they will take them.

I definitely agree with you that the game more interested in removing BBs. Sure! So we are sold a mystery tree, which can be controlled, the BB is removed, the tree generates ccs, and then the tree fruit is removed. A vicious cycle which makes sense if one chooses to see it.

The wolf you see again. Stable developed, sold via BBs via mystery stables, feed defined which provides use for items and a means of controlling the specific items, wolf produced, demand created, people happy, some amazed at price which can be adjusted and has been taken into consideration, can remove ccs through the quest, ..... last thing to remove the rewards .... and on to the next item to introduce....

@jennifersiegel

I was ROFL while reading your post. I know you see so many things clearly and then seem to get lost in your thoughts exactly as I have. I was lost so many times. It's like it is just too much. But I would drift into a thought and before long it becomes almost routine thinking and I almost could not believe it. And the thinking gets deeper and deeper and deeper over time. When getting lost I would stop and return later to whatever it was. Then begin again. When things began to be in conflict with what I learned then I knew something was wrong and I was confused.

And if you choose to add, subtract, multiply and divide while playing the game then exchange value understanding and use turns what you know into a whole new game. It limits the wild generalizations made and turns what was wild into something specific.

All these effects appear in the market. They can be used to generate ccs quite efficiently with more than our feelings. This may also be used in simple ep generation decisions.

Enjoyed your post.

I want to respond to Sillyguy but this post is too long. See ya around Sillyguy!

 

Okay farmer_broke. You may go on...


EDIT :

When one type of items has increased the price, of course, will have a "domino effect". This is a game that you say the cycle as a vicious cycle.

 

farmer_broke,

The only way to remove currency from a modern economy monetary system is to get it paid -either directly or indirectly- to the "central bank" of that economy, provided that central bank does not inject it back into the system. In this game, the CCs monetary base works exactly in the same way real monetary bases would work in real economies if these hadn't any banks (and there weren't loans, interest rates and borrowers).

The only way CCs are so far actually getting removed from the game's CCs monetary base is by either having to donate them to a quest -for example: there have been cases in the not recent past- and, more consistently and thoroughly widespread as a daily toll, water and via the 10% sales tax and the 7 days lifespan of each listing. Why? Because what a buyer pays goes to the stock of the seller; it's not removed from the system; the seller will then be able to use her/his increased CCs stock as s/he pleases. More precisely, each 100 CCs spent by a buyer increase the wealth of the seller in exactly 90 CCs; hence, CCs removal for each 100 CCs spent is just 10 CCs, not 100 CCs. BUT, all what sellers list and does not get sold in 7 days means 10% removal -they paid the sales tax but they don't get it returned when the unsold items go back to their barns-.

Therefore, whatever portion a player may spend of her/his CCs stock for getting, for example, the bee-utiful bred bee of your example, is not removed 100% from the system: only 10% of it is, the 10% the sellers had to pay to list the items that player needed to buy to get to the bee-util bee s/he donated.

What a player may produce and use without marketing it does not have any CCs removal effect, none whatsoever, except for down-speeding the removal effect via the 10% sales tax (through less demand inducing less listings or same listing at lower prices -that pay, as a result, less when the sales tax is deduced from the total listed-).

This means that, as far as things currently are in game, the only way developers have been using to remove CCs from game, apart from the rare occasions in which actual CCs are asked to be donated to quests and the daily water needs of thousands of players, is by inducing artificial demand and market competition.

Demand creates the opportunity to have lots of listings, all of them being there after the seller paid the 10% sales tax; market competition ensures some of those listings will not get sold in the 7 days lifespan of the listing. Those are the only CCs actually removed.

But, by the same token, it's difficult to assess how much of what's removed is re-injected into system via two main channels:
* CCs rewards from quests, nFHOs, wheel, CC-givers -and maybe something else I don't recall now-;
* instant profit created by seeds bought in store and afterwards sold at a much higher price (either directly or indirectly -via the final produce, whatever this one is-, immediately or long afterwards).

In other words, it's difficult to assess how much of the CCs monetary based is sucked into the game's "central bank" again and how quickly. I think and sense it's a net, meaning the base is actually shrinking, but, in my opinion, not as much or as quickly as what your bee-utiful example may induce to think.

 

Not engaging in a central banking system discussion with anyone in this arena regarding the central banking system as this game definitely lacks the potential of operating in a manner which parallels it. Whatever you want to write about that is fine. There is no foundation here for anything substantial.

The 10% listing fees and water are obvious examples. Again, the buying of a bee-u-tiful anything here only removes the 10% portion of the listing. AGAIN, it is the donating which removes the substantial portion. And not all of it because the rewards, as minimal as they are, must be dealt with sooner or later. And the rewards MUST be kept at a minimum and we MUST be enticed to contribute.

I'll say this in the same simple manner for you: Buying on the open market here does not remove ccs. Selling an item does not remove CCs (other than the listing fee which is obvious.) IT IS THE DONATING WHICH IN EFFECT REMOVES THE CCS.

The business about growing not removing ccs (except water purchase) goes right back to the original point. Both of us have failed to mention this: growing and producing are two obvious way of EXPANDING ccs. And they WILL BE removed.

Thousands of water .....sure .... and thousands of bee-u-tiful bees also! One sole act will not reduce ccs substantially. It is the total of the combined efforts to eliminate the ccs which yield meaningful success.

Another way. Just because my cc account shows exactly -0- ccs does NOT mean I do not have any. That is all you see! You cannot see 12,000 anaconda or 1.6 million apples or anything else.

I have ccs even if I sell them all at .10 each to get something you can see.

Now if I donate all the anaconda and all the apples and have no ccs for you to see then ccs have been successfully removed from the game ..... forever.

Aluntino, we can even transfer ccs across markets. Obviously we can do it in the form of gifts.

Wanna make a loan?
I don't want something for nothing.....I want to pay interest....Terms?

Need a loan?
I like you, your credit is good. How much ya need? And there is an interest charge just like at a commercial bank.

I never intended to indicate a quick and accurate reduction in a cc base taking place. Many cannot see it is even taking place all or the reasons why.

Unless you are able to point me in another direction, I will maintain my position that there is no event that has ever asked for a direct contribution of ccs.

I agree somewhat. I'll go as far as to say some "domino effects" are immediately noticeable. Some however are so latent the cause is forgotten. Also some are so slight, that unless one is using exchange value analysis or a method which parallels it, the change will not be noticed at all.

Some of these effects are long lasting and some are very temporary. Take bee breeding for example. When introduced bee prices rose immediately and I sold 15,000 in less than a week. Bee feed did not increase at the time. I held 13,000 and did not fight for the loose change on the market. Today, I fight with no one as the loose change sellers are sold out. Timing effects, all temporary it seems.

I asked whether you knew ALL the uses of lettuce not to minimize but to offer to assist. If one does not know ALL the uses of an item them naturally one cannot see all the effects. And lettuce is only one of the first crops we were introduced to and you would be surprised at the number of farmers who do not know yet have high expectations of generating ccs based on such knowledge.

By the way, all 56 of the wolves I had on the market sold a few hours ago. I need those ccs for an investment.

All that is left now is for the buyer to donate and the ccs will be removed from the system.

 

Unconvincing, farmer_broke, I'm sorry. I don't see any point in what you're saying, if it's not related to the total mass of CCs in the whole universe of players. But I'm sure it is because you are stressing the point of the thousands -even millions, I may add- of things that have to be donated. That relates to the whole universe of players, as the sum of the individual groupings of them in different markets. Which brings us back to the CCs monetary base (I'm not engaging in any discussion on central banking system, by the way, as it should be obvious from what I wrote: I just said the CCs monetary base works exactly as the one in a real economy; monetary base management is only one of the things a central banking system of a real economy does).

Growing and producing do not expand CCs, as I mentioned in my previous post, for the obvious reason that the CCs that are eventually paid for what some grow and produce come from some other player's CCs stock and that no CCs are involved if one grows and produces for her/his own consumption -the only important thing is the cost of opportunity, but opportunity does not come to existence for the whole market until realized, though it exists for the individual player for her/his decisions on what to grow or produce-. By the same token, donation doesn't remove anything, for exactly the same reason, except the sales taxes of what's involved to get or produce whatever is donated if bought or the CCs paid for the water needed to produce it or any of its ingredients.

The only CCs creation items that come now to my mind that I failed to list in my previous post -(wong statement follows: CCs paid for these pheromones are also in some other player's CCs stock already: no CCs creation involved) apart from gifts: you're right, e.g., pheromones can be sold, creating CCs from nothing- are:
* the addition of new players: these increase the total number of potential CCs achieved through the other creation channels I've already mentioned;
* items bought with BBs that become or are tradeable by their very nature (like bred animals produced with PF bought with BBs and, hence, mostly with RL money).

EDIT:
* correction about pheromones added;
* 2nd thought: if we are talking of stock removal then we are in full agreement, but if it is so, it's not reflected as a CCs removal -translated to the term I've been using: it's not reflected in any special CCs monetary base shrinkage bar the 10% sales tax applied to items actually sold and bought and the listed items left unsold after 7 days-.

 

Thank you for admitting you do not see any point in what I am saying. As mentioned above, many cannot see it and will not see it and many do not care. And as in RL it is just fine with me. Some simply cannot conceive what is going on and that alone is beneficial in the development process. If you can see this in terms of stock removal that is fine as it is a subdivision of cc removal also and is part of the removal aspect also.

If one would like to get even more accurate then view this is terms of Exchange Value removal. Whatever aspect one can see is all I hoped to achieve and have. Now I am absolutely certain to continue and generate ccs knowing the challenges some have with the obvious.

Been down that same road you are on with understanding this. Keep on going and you will reach the sign that says "DEAD END." Obviously your thinking about it and must congratulate you on well developed thoughts.

I have but one suggestion when one reaches that point: Back up and start down a new road to understanding it if you dare. Eventually one will wind up on one that leads somewhere.

Back to wolves----

The number of offers have increased on several markets. From detailed em discussions with 3 other farmers making it to the TOP 50 I find the wolf pen or stall will be treated as a good acquisition at this time. Two are gathering several hundred to hold. I am the only one of us choosing to play them like lettuce. Considering their words makes me want to leave them alone. Lump some pay off is good though. Will think about it.

 

Well, farmer_broke, thank you for thanking me for "admitting" I see no point in what you are saying, in the way you are saying it. Maybe it's because I'm blind and need your guide to truth or maybe, just stop a second to consider this possibility, it's because what you're saying, in the way you're saying it, it's simply not there.

But, to be fair, I would have liked better that you, to support your claim of my supposed blindness, explained somewhere how, exactly how, CCs are removed from the system by donating or by growing and selling. How. Not just saying so -repeating a claim doesn't make it any sounder- and expecting everyone else to believe you in a leap of faith, just because you say so. By explaining how, others could have the chance to assess the soundness of that explanation.

So far, you've given absolutely no valid soundly shown response to either what SillyGuy before me and I have commented on your claims that CCs are removed from system by donating or growing and selling. You just keep saying we fail to see it.

If you meant stock removal, something that developers do time and again in a way apparent to everyone else, then it'd be nice you "admit" that's what you were referring to. But if you still insist you mean CCs removal, by other means other than the 10% sales tax, CCs donations, water purchases, then you should explain how those CCs are actually removed by those other means, what the mechanism is. Otherwise, without an explanation on how, you are only asking for belief.

 

@Aluntino

I lack the skills necessary to assist further. Believe nothing I have mentioned.

Wolf prices on this market are from 40k - 77k, 64 offers, mostly in lots of 1. My decision is to consider the risks my associates mention. I will continue to play them as if playing the lettuce market! A relatively expensive play but I judge risk of loss to be minimal. Too many easy ccs for me to ignore. At present I see no evidence to regard wolves as even a potential breeding animal in the next 12 months. Will not even gather any underpriced wolf feed at this time.

---edit---

Another 1.6M is wolf sale revenue rolled in too. Believe it or not.