New Baby reindeer to my herd

They had 3 but guessing one has already died (or been sold) as they are selling 2 to get out of reindeer - the never said the had more than 2, but my snooping found 3 in Autumn! ..
Not sure until I grill them, first thoughts worms but if they say they worm regularly, then I will question feed but there might be a possibility of copper deficiency... I notice pale rings around eyes (which in cattle can suggest copper deficiency) BUT reindeer can have that as natural markings... Not sure until I grill owners but if they are skinnier than this late Summer photo, I may not be able to pull them through even if I risk silly money..
If I do risk taking them on I will quarantine while I worm, get full blood works done etc. etc... they wouldn't be allowed near my herd until I get the all clear but they would have to be in a small non grazing area... so I would need to push tests quickly as they need graze/browse, pellets, an all round diet ASAP!

 

That picture is scary to me on many levels! 1st as you said they are more than thin, they look starved! 2nd look where they are, not a blade of grass green or otherwise around for them to graze on!
Who ever has those poor animals needs to get a grip and stop treating them so inhumanely!
As much as you might want to rescue them, and I know you know this you don't need to be bringing any disease back to your beautiful herd! That is just so sad and disgusting!

 

Is it possible that they may have a communicable illness or disease?? Could they put the whole herd at risk?
If you are looking for new genetics, wouldn't you want good, healthy, ones??
Honestly, that photo scares me, too! But your herd is your primary concern...why risk your cuddles babies?? And your vulnerable new cuddles babies, too??

Perhaps you could very kindly send a schedule of the things you have outlined to do for them...then the owners could save their own stock.
It could be by owner-ignorance that they have become so sick/ill/diseased...and may not be able to survive a winter, no matter what is done now.
IMHO, they should fix their own problem before passing such a dire risk on to someone else.

 

I agree with others here. My first thoughts are: 1) I wouldn't pay anything for them. Take them for free to see if you can save them if you feel you need to rescue them. Don't reward these poor caretakers. 2) Are you prepared emotionally for the possibility that these might not make it despite all your efforts? 3) Are they used to human interaction? 4) Will moving them to a new environment stress them even more? 5) I wouldn't breed them this year. Do you have a plan to keep them from being a problem with a bull nearby? 6) How will your own herd react to them?

I hope you think this over well before you decide what to do. Good Luck!

 

I agree with what everyone else has said about these reindeer. I know that you would want to help /rescue these poor animals but I hope that you do think this over very seriously and make the right decision for you and your herd.

 

I have emailed for recent pictures but I can't do anything, anyway until Tuesday/Wednesday due to a manic few days, gives me more chance to ponder and wait for recent photos!

But their poor body condition won't be due to disease, as they wouldn't still be "with us". Reindeer die very quickly with disease, without hardly showing any symptoms. A friend went to morning feed a few days ago and found what had been an apparently healthy reindeer dead... awaiting PM (autopsy). That picture has to be poor management/worms or a deficiency (possibly copper).. I have a strategy, I think to cover these bases - the only one that puts my lot at risk is worms!!! But would plan to keep them off pasture until I get a negative faecal egg count after worming. They would have to be kept in a field shelter with just access to about 20x20 gravelled area but with loads of haylage, picked browse and pellets for about 2 weeks but it would be only for a short while. If it is a worm burden that has been going on for a long time there is a serious risk that their gut will have long term damage, as reindeer don't cope with worms well.
calculation is that worms may be the only issue... Anyway not sure what I'll do yet..

To cheer us all up. Sorry I haven't taken any new photos today as weather was miserable but here's one of Mischa taken yesterday, I think the one who will calve first.. that udder looks more promising everyday (even though she is getting coy when I put my head between her legs to check - funny).

 

I believe it is driving you crazy knowing those reindeer are out there and desperately needing help! It is driving me crazy and I can truly do nothing! I hope you can find the answers you are searching for and then you will know what you need to do! What ever is best all around! Way to go Mischa, enough with that camera mum! She looks like she is saying "Don't come any closer with that camera!"

 

Lovely pose Mischa!

After looking at so many photos of your lovely reindeer, those poor thin creatures made me cry. Sending out extra blessings for wisdom as you make your decision about whether to take them.

 

I am going to see them on Tuesday.. I asked for recent photos. (one attaced)
One looks better than I hoped but one still very, very thin but if it was disease they wouldn't still be alive, so it's worms/feeding/ or copper deficiency.. Owners say they had a full vet check in March???
I NEED them,,, it's heart over brain!!! ??????

 

Oh my God! March of what year?!! I can almost count their ribs! I am in tears here, how can people let this happen!? It makes me so angry!! Bless them, I hope they make it till Tuesday! As for these people wanting money for these reindeer they have a lot of nerve!! They should pay you, for if you do take them you will put a piece of your soul into getting them healthy again, never mind what the financial
part will be!

 

They are a year older than Lotte, so should be far bigger and far more weight carried. (Picture Lotte a year younger)

I am stupidly proud of my "little ones" and delighted that others can see the difference. Unfortunately, vets in UK know very little about reindeer and they are not easy animals to keep healthy but I think my ONGOING post has many seeing the difference..
As to what I'll do on Tuesday... I'm saying I'm not sure, but my heart seems to be ruling my head and saying those poor little ones need a chance... I have enough space to quarantine for several weeks until all tests run but I may loose them?? Do I spend silly money buying them??? That's only my head asking... the need a chance...
As you can tell... I don't know!!!
Picture my Lotte, a year younger than the girls for sale.. Find the Crystal Ball!!

 

Wow, Karen, you are really between that rock and a very hard place! Good luck and my thoughts and prayers are with you!

 

I can't help wondering what an RSPCA Inspector would make of their living conditions and general health. My own thoughts are should the owners really be allowed to profit from such blatant stock mismanagement. Added to which it's going to cost you a fair bit just to try and get them into a near normal condition for their age and the time of year.

I wonder if these poor things have even seen proper pasture or had treats like reindeer moss or even apples. In the previous photo it looked like they may have been trying to gnaw at the bark on some of the trees. It makes me so angry to see such lovely animals living in such appalling conditions. If anyone can help these animals get a chance for a better quality of life, you can Karen - you are the Reindeer Whisperer lol.

 

BLZ.. so funny Reindeer Whisperer.. Heehee... Thank you, my head won't fit through the door now!!

I have put a "Shout out" on a Closed Reindeer Owners site, mostly Alaskan herders showing pictures and they say I shouldn't take the risk as my herd is very healthy... I know where they are coming from BUT to turn my back on them??? They will be sold on, but if they go to someone else that doesn't realise they need serious help quickly, they won't make it through next Winter...
Come Tuesday I will be embarrassed either way (I have either purchased them or said no).. It's one or those no win days...

 

I've been biting my lip as to a comment on the dilemma of buying these distraught reindeer. I agree with BLZ, RSPCA should be called immediately. As far as buying these reindeer....I would say no. If you decide to take them on....this is a rescue effort and will cost you mucho "silly money" to bring them back to health, if that is even possible. But I would not pay for these sickly animals to an obvious poor caretaker of these poor creatures. They should pay you or at least, be on their knees thanking you for helping them.

My other great worry, is your home herd....especially with 6 wee babies to be born in the next few weeks. Your reindeer are more like pets and are very dear to you....and all of us. If any of them were lost b/c of exposure to virus etc., it would be horrific.
Karen, I know you have such a big heart and want to help these miserable reindeer......I do not envy your predicament.

 

Karen, whatever you finally decide to do, I hope you will consider that their condition may have been bad enough long enough to do DNA damage....and think what effect that might have on your herd if you allowed them to breed....and if they lived - wouldn't you be tempted?
Perhaps the Alaskan herders have a very valid point about risking your herd, whatever the reason, including worms!

Has anyone reported those 'caretakers' to the authorities for neglect/abuse?? It could be just from ignorance, but it would certainly be a good teacher for their future....in case they try ever again with any animal.
I also agree with BLZ, that they should be paying you to 'Rescue' those poor reindeer. Maybe you could mention this on Tuesday...but there is no reason you should have to pay so much to fix the problem they created...and are now trying to dump on someone else.
They are the ones who should be embarrassed - NOT you!! Telling the truth kindly, tactfully, is never an embarrassment for the one being honest!! They need help/education, and the truth may help them to become better with animals...even better people. If you have to say NO - say it. And, if you can, help them to understand why. Be brave. It can be a 'Win' day for reasons other than those poor reindeer.
Come Tuesday, you have no reason to be embarrassed - either way...and that's the truth!

We all care for your wonderful herd of 'cuddles babies', too (although not as much as you do, of course) - so please do forgive us if we feel protective of them and hesitate to want them exposed to anything dangerous such as this.
You are right - your heart may be bigger than your head. Maybe that's why we care for you, too. You truly are a Reindeer Whisperer!
Just pleeeease give your head equal time on this one!

(LOL! Guess we were writing at the same time, Brooke!)

 

Karen
Your compassion towards the animals is commendable. As poorly a state these reindeer are in, it seems a miracle that they survived the winter as the photos shown on the previous page are from last summer. Their condition appears to be the same 8 months later. It makes me question if those photos are indeed correctly dated.

My thoughts and prayers go with you on Tuesday. I would be a nervous wreck until then as I, too, would want to scoop them up and give them every chance at rehabilitation. However, on the head side, I would not only look over the animals carefully, but would ask to see the food they've been fed, the water source, walk over their paddock to see the vegetation (is there adequate grazing or is it full of weeds and dirt patches), as well as request to see the vet records. What did the vet do in March? What tests were done and what were the results? Perhaps call the vet and talk to him/her. Perhaps consult your own vet. I think all bits of information you can gather would be additional support of deciding one way or the other. Perhaps you can have your own vet do some tests to determine their health and if it is safe to add them to the herd. You've said you have a place you can quarantine them but I would want the assurance it is something that can be overcome with good nutrition and worming. I know it can be expensive to run medical tests, especially on animals you don't own, but it would be worth the investment (IMHO) to know what you are getting into.

We all have followed your thread faithfully since you began it and some of us have experience with different kids of livestock even if not reindeer. As you say, reindeer are not known much about so I would encourage you to trust the wisdom of those you respect in the reindeer community.

Whatever you decide is best for your herd, I will look forward to future updates. I'm eager to see your new babies. If you do decide to help these new reindeer, we will all root for them and fall in love too.

Best wishes to you Karen.....

 

Karen there is one further consideration to be looked at here. Your own time.

Your herd is entering a very intense and potentially life - threatening time with 6 mothers and their babies needing all the assistance you can provide to get as many of them through it as possible. We know from previous years that you are run ragged at this time of year and that your on-hands approach has caught issues before they became life- threatening. Do you really have the stamina and endurance to be able to give 100% to your own herd and still have time and energy to support and quarentine two animals that also require a lot of care and attention? After all, the last thing anyone wants is for you to make yourself ill trying to do everything and, as you said yourself, you are it when it comes to human resources.

I also think you are damned if you do and damned if you don't in this case but your herd is dependent on you to care for them and I think there are enough concerns surrounding them for any additional distractions to be detrimental to all.

 

I've made a decision.. my herd is too important to me to risk. I have though long and hard but worse case scenario, if they have TB even quarantined this would spread to my herd via wildlife - at first I thought I could get them tested for that before I brought them home but then an even worse case scenario... they were imported 2 years ago, CWD (Chronic Wasting Disease) was first discovered a year ago in Europe, it would have been around before that. At the moment we do not know of any cases in the UK and it cannot be diagnosed until the animal is dead by examining their brain.
So the risks (even though CWD, would be very slim) are just too high. Sobbing as I type this.

 

Karen although I know it must have been a very hard decision I think that you have made the right one. Your herd are just too precious to expose them to any sort of risk. As BLZ so rightly said you have a very intense time ahead with the babies due, and your girls are going to need your loving help and support 100% of your time. You know that we are all behind you whatever you decided to do, but speaking personally I am glad that you have made the decision that you have.