Strategy: The 2015 Harvest Hoedown

Any playing style is OK, by definition, since this is a game. There's no use to try to force anyone to see it differently. Whatever makes you happy is OK, be it farming in a Fordian uninspired fashion, not farming at all and only playing the markets, and whichever playing style a player may choose in between.

For me, as I said many times, is about optimization. That is, getting the most with the little or the lot I have. That's what drives fun for me, but I realize no one else needs to share that.

Any farming, in RL, by the way, involves going to markets, for both selling and buying, just because it's impossible to produce everything. In this game, it's no different. But if anyone wants to achieve more, whatever this is, then using this game's markets is mandatory.

As for the Harvest Hoedown TopXX00 list, it's really a no-brainer, in my opinion. It's about maximizing the total Exchange Value (ExV) stock of your farm, considering everything. Rules of what you can donate may change for next edition but previous ones accepted everything except for artisan crafting basics and products, animal products and tools, if I recall it correctly.

However, the ExV stock needed to be able to make it to the bottom of the Top1000 (it used to be Top500) is roughly an order of magnitude higher than the minimum needed to normally operate your farm. Therefore, it's all about massively hoarding and nothing else. And hoarding at that scale can only be achieved through buying stuff in market. Which means that you first need to make the CCs to be able to buy it. And which translates into trying to make the most of your CCs to maximize the ExV you accumulate. That is, playing the markets. Heavily, relentlessly.

I now don't remember but I think last year only those who donated 120/150M in ExV were able to make it to the bottom of the Top1000 list. Expect that figure to be higher, probably much higher -but I doubt this year will be much much higher, because this year we've been through a constant and unprecedented drain, and strain, of our stocks of everything, especially animals, animal products and bred animals-.

Hence, maximizing the outcome of your CCs in ExV terms is of the utmost importance if you want to be ready for HH. As of now, the best deals in my mkt peak at 4 ExV units/CC spent (lemons); generally, you'll get the best ratios with fruit -but not all fruit-, some crops, like roses -ratio=3,5 in my mkt right now-, and so on.

Hoarding as much as that means you need to start doing it along the whole year, since buying the best deals every single day will inevitably raise price of that item in your market.

Having said all of that, HH is not for me. I have a very well stocked farm, though nowadays too low on some products and animals, for my liking. But, so far, I have never found any of the prizes given for making it to the the TopXX00 enticing enough to drive me to emptying my barn and, as a result, somewhat crippling my farm. By not having done so, I've been able to be well positioned all the year to get many things from nFHOs and many events that, considered as a whole, have given me much much more value (a sidereal distance of more value).

Besides, starting last year, ExV/CCs ratio jumped up too much. Up to a year ago, you could easily get stuff worth 7, even 8 or 10, ExV units per CC spent, on many items. The whole of this year that ratio almost never was over 4 or 5. So, to get enough stuff (enough ExV stock) to be prepared for next HH would have meant I would have had to spend much more time in mkts than the one I already spend. And I simply refuse to be a market slave just for the sake of some rather low value reward (the fact of being listed in the TopXX00 has less than zero value for me). So, unless a miracle happens, this year I'll see HH TopXX00 struggle go by into oblivion as I did all of the previous years I've been around.

 

By that logic, every single one of us is wasting our lives and is addicted and avoiding real life, since every single one of us spends time playing this game and reading this forum.

I think it's safe to assume you think of me as a "complainant", and can't recall any strategies I've posted. I've never started a strategy thread, but I have contributed to others' threads on several occasions, and am quite active in assisting people in the Newbie Observation thread (most often posting from my other farm, steph2014). On here, I replied to Jools' post because I don't think it's right for anyone to call someone else's thread pointless. As lots of people have pointed out, there's more than one way to play. Something that one person finds pointless, someone else might find helpful. I felt s/he was being unkind, and I firmly believe in speaking up when I feel someone is being mean. In any case, I should have expected that by speaking up, I was opening myself up to condescension. I shouldn't have to defend myself when all I was doing was defending the OP. I guess the saying is true: "No good deed goes unpunished".

 

Preparation for the main event of the traditional October Harvest Hoedown, and Halloween, is a really good idea. Last year we got the SuperGrow Cloud Row. A few years before that we got the Crafting Products like PJam, CAC, CB and CAC. It seems like we had one, or was it two, Oct events that were sorta duds. But... I HIGHLY recommend ALL players start preparing for this, if you have time. Better to be prepared than not.

If you mean completing the main event... Thanks for reminding me.
Most of that information is in past breeding event strategy threads. Hopefully the authors of those posts will provide links for you rather than regurgitating the information here. Since most of us have already read those posts numerous times. But... The basics are... the best time to SELL is immediately before/during/after a breeding event. The best time to BUY is... the other times. I do some selling during that short time frame but I mostly hoard what I breed. Primarily because I find going to the Market enough to get the best buys too tedious and time consuming. I do like to sell some bred critters so that I have some CCs to spend when I need them instead of resorting to fire sales. As always... since each Market is different you will have to do your own math. I have some tips on how I collected critters for my critter trophy in the General Event Strategies thread.

Last year we needed... I hope I got these numbers right. They are quite tiny and I'm too lazy to enlarge / shrink the page. LOL
50k + 650k = 700k EV in crops (the FAQ says CC, but that is misleading since one might pay one amount of CC for an item today, half as much tomorrow. EV doesn't change, yet, and is the number used to determine the donations. )
100k + 800k = 900k EV in animals
150k EV in fruit
850k + 1,600k = 2,450k EV in breeding animals I tried to look up the lowest level bred, L1, chicken to see how many chickens that would be, but I don't have one in stock. It's a lot. Or one can use top level bred critters, only needed one eggshell bunny. Each market is different and you will have to do your own math to figure out which ones to use.
The first number in each line is the amount to get the CR. The second is the amounts to get the givers to make the cloud row useful. It would probably be a good idea to add about 25% to each of those totals if you want to be able to complete the entire main event. That's assuming we have an event worth those types of donations.

 

While carefully reading all the above comments on this competition, I feel compelled to comment on it's usefulness in the game as through the HH the price of otherwise useless products is maintained at its current level.
There are a number of fruits and crops that are not required for producing animal food or products that would be completely worthless.
In a way, even if the event was not repeated, another way would have to be found to recycle all the unused fruit/crops/products.
The outcome benefits everyone.

Having said the above, I have not participated in any of the past HH contests; however this does not mean that I do not expect and prepare my barn for it.
During the contest some people buy and some people sell.... I sell....
I sell through the market to farmers participating in the contest and make the most out of it.
This does not mean that I don't follow the list of 1000 and be happy with farmers I know that struggle to get in the list.... it simply means that my personal positioning is different.

I believe that the highest benefit out of this interesting thread is that many farmers can be helped to decide on what is the best position they can take during this contest, depending on each ones online farming time, farming behavior, time in the market and expectations.
Definitely, if you do not have a very large surplus of products that you may hand in without jumping a painful heartbeat, then ..... don't do it...
The minimum expected exchange value, according to past history and trends, can be quite reasonably evaluated at 130-160.000.000.

The HH is an annual barn festival where everyone can participate, regardless if they are competing, trading or just just enjoying the show.

 

Yes, xristos (if I may all you that?) I tend to forget... since I don't like to hang at the Market. LOL! I often forget to go to Market until I'm low on CCs. But the preparation for the HH and the event itself, is an excellent opportunity to make money. I remember some players were even making money selling roses during the last HH. Maybe I'll have time this year...

EDIT:
As already mentioned by someone else who did the numbers... for anyone thinking of pursuing the Top Players trinket...
You first need to have around 200k CCs average everyday to buy whatever it is you're going to donate to the Top Comp.
That means you have to find a way to generate that much income. I know there are players that do that. I do no have the time to try to be one of them.
Then you have to do the math to determine the best deals and buy them.

That's not how I choose to spend the rest of my life.

 

I have an Inking this Year HH that the chances of Staying in Top 500 or Top1000. Would in fact will be easier than Previous Harvest Hoedowns. My Meaning of Easier is that we would not be needing to donate to much of our Barn stocks into Top 500 or Top 1000.

Over The Last four years we would have donated Trillions Worth of Barn Stock, which actually taken out Trillions Worth of Barn Stocks out of our Markets. Many Many of These Stocks of Fruits, Animals etc Could have been brought at much cheap Exchange Value from what we buy from our markets.

The Market these Days nearly everything have gone up in price therefore All Exchange Values have gone up no matter what you brought from the Markets. I have notice not so many Farmers are selling in huge bulks into the Markets of Either Crops which mostly used to mill Animal Feeds. All of the older Fruits in circulations no so many of them are in circulation like they use to be. One of the Reason we have moved onto Newer Fruits. As there has been quiet a few new Fruits been introduced into our Game and Markets since the last HH.

Since Big Point has brought us some quests asking for rare fruits as they had the chance to come down in price prices have more or less remind very high but hardly of of these new rare fruits have good Exchange Value compared to Normal Fruits Exchange Values.

Also bear in mind many of us not got any surplus fruits to sell to the Markets so other farms can snap them up to be ready for HH Event. Many of Us have Drain our Barn Stocks last time or Refusing to sell to Markets Holding onto them ready for this year HH

I am one of those who Successfully Stayed in Top 1000 last year But I Hardly really put in a Dent of My Barn Stock I only used Fruits Donations only last year.

Broke had donated way more than me in Last Year Top1000 only to get the Same Prizes from HH of 2014. I Always use logic and sense when i do my Farming. I still got reasonable amount of Barn Stock left over from last Year which was not needed for further donations as Big Point had to Disqualify Between 100 to 200 Farmers From The Game the outcome of that i Moved up the Top 1000 List Considerably !!!

This Year I Predict that we might not need to donate so much Barn stock, compared to Previous HH. Plus I Reckon that we have less competitions than Previous HH participant Hopefully My Hunch is Right

Another Thing that Changed this Year we had a Few New Island Fruit Trees that have the Best Exchange Value of Fruits in the Whole Market. But There is hardly any we can really buy from the Markets as there is not many in Circulation due to the Fact many of us have not able to unlock these Fruit Trees from the Temple. Even when you do unlock these Fruit Trees from the Temple they are very expensive to buy these Fruit Trees from the Stores. If there is not many to buy from the Markets but the only other alternative is to grow these Fruits but it does not come cheap. Plus Many are needed to complete Quests !!!

 

It occurs to me after reading some of the above that this type of event is an alternative to having your barn stocks spoil. What I mean is they have to have some way to remove crops and stock from the game if not the economy would eventually collapse. The FSQ's and events can only do so much and even the pit of the LL does have a bottom to it, eventually.

 

"What did you get just in case?"

The discussion of that single question provides the foundation for this thread. Assuming a sizeable demand of items, there are ways to prepare efficiently. Regardless of the event level one chooses to complete, the intentional preparation can prove (has proved) to be quite profitable and allow one to achieve their goals.

• Breeding Animals -- If called for I will use albino bat. I have acquired a few over time. No cheaper animal to accomplish the desired holding level is available, no other. How much? This is the question I will be faced with throughout preparation. 50,000 worth is less than 40 needed. I produced something else to sell to buy the albino bats a few at a time and cheap. Say I have 1000. Maybe I won't need them all or at all. What will I do with them? (More later.) The answer is based on a general call. (More on a specific breeding animal call later.)

• Flowers -- If a general call, I will use roses. (Notice several have mentioned roses and even cc's made on roses. There is a reason.) The younger farm will use roses with an exchange value of 113. How many/much do I want? Just a wild guess. I'll say 100,000 exchange value worth. That is less than 1000 roses. Can I grow them. I can. Or I can buy them cheap a few at a time over time. But if you want to give something else or not prepare at all, this is up to you. Up to each of us! Right now, this is my strategy in preparing for an overall flower call.

• Animals -- If a general call, I will use dogs. My reason is because the cost/EV ratio is the lowest (just as in using roses for flowers and albino bats for breeding animals). How much? How many? Same thing. Some may use free cuckoos. But there is always the possibility that cuckoos may not be an eligible donation item. Dogs have an EV of 450 and I can buy for say 600 cc. Or I can use chickens, which is not too efficient. I can buy a chicken for say 300 and it has an EV of 25. To me that is throwing away ccs but if that is what one wants to do then fine with me. Be assured some will do so. (More on this later.)

There is more to discuss in many areas. Changes will most probably be made in the event and this includes the requirements. Nothing stops developers for asking for instance for:

1. 
   
2. Tools
   
3. Crops (Baha or farm)
   Grains
   Vegetables
   Flowers
   Other (crops)
   
4. Animal feed
   
5. Craft products
   
6. Artisan products
   
7. Tree fruit (unspecified or rare)
   
8. Animals (Baha or farm)
   
9. Rare animals
   
10. Breeding Animal (Baha or farm)
    
11. Products (Baha or farm)

No one will know how well they are prepared or if they are prepared until the event faqs come out ......... if they ever indeed come out.

Completing the event will be enough for many. That indeed is an accomplishment. The younger farm will continue to slowly strategically prepare (in about 15 minutes a day). I do not recommend anyone venturing into the TOP 1000 without a minimum of 200,000,000 EV of items ready to give. And if this 200,0000,000 is the bulk of your farm, there will be a recovery period your farm will go through. Have two (2) billion and no problem this year.

 

SuzeeRabbit you are absolutely correct that the preparation for the HH and the event itself, is an excellent opportunity to make money.
There are a number of flowers and fruit that have a much better than normal selling price... roses as you mentioned, maple sap ,almonds.
Plus you don't have to run through the market. You can sell your produce.
PS :xristos is perfect

LDCrow I couldn't have said it better!!! Thumbs up!!

Mooboy I'm not sure that I fully agree that someone might not need to donate so much Barn stock, compared to Previous HH.
We have a general increase of prices throughout the market items that is not connected only to items that can be used in this event.
The game is changing and so is the behavior of the players.

I'm not sure that for big tree farmers the prospect of selling 1.000 or 10.000 maple saps or almonds is a money making option anymore. There are much easier and faster ways to make money.
For the moment one can now make 5.000CC out of one kiwi feed which needs only a few minutes to be produced, 30.000CC out of a turtle, 5.000CC per fruit out of a new tree or 8.000CC out of a fake mustache.

We have an overall inflation in the game and I expect to see this in the HH contest.
I have a feeling that the exchange products are being stocked up in barns since last years contest.

 

I can't agree with you more, xristos. Inflation has indeed arrived to this game's economy environment, and, as inflation does in real life economic systems, people change their behaviour accordingly. Here, it's demand generated. For each single item, it's either direct or indirect, but always demand generated. (In this sense, there's one thing I disagree with you about, though: that there are many items that are good for nothing; that's not true: nFHOs ask for everything, by the truckloads, on a daily basis, except for -weirdly enough- a few items, like MH hit records or jewels -people complained then about them and they were taken away from nFHOs altogether; no one complains now about, eg, luggage, and it's a nightmare how many they're already asking for, daily-; this daily renovated and varied very high demand ensures strain over markets, strain peaking when quests or events add their toll; the best recent example of the role nFHOs play in demand generation is tilia's fruit: while it was required by the only normal fruits customer, it was hard to get one at less than 400 CCs each -at the most, players have 4 of those trees, all taking 20 hs to get ripe-; as soon as it got transferred to the only rare things customer, price dropped quickly -less than a week- to 100 CCs each or less: demand dropped dramatically because those tilia fruits are coupled in the orders with other rare items players like me would be unwilling to part with in large quantities, if any).

My bet is that the bottom of the TopXX00 will need around what you mentioned (130-160M ExV units) or somewhat above, but not much. Since demand generated inflation now plagues all markets, this also means people can make more money, more easily, with things like the ones you mentioned or, for example, bred animals -my specialty group of items-; hence, as a result, though prices have indeed increased massively across the board, those serious HH TopXX00's preppers can, for that very same reason, have the CCs to pay higher prices per ExV unit. And I bet they are doing that (I noticed how easily, for instance, maple sap at 40 CCs apiece disappears from my mkt; last year, for most of the year, it lagged in the 15 CCs each range).

On this vein, cork fruit could be a good CCs-making opportunity right now: its high ExV (164) coupled with the short time the cork tree takes and the high EPs it yields, especially in its upgraded versions, will create both a high demand and a high offer. They may become the next surprise (it was introduced to mkt today and it now ranges, in mine, around 150 CCs apiece, not a good TopXX00 hoarding means but this price can drop quickly). Its high ExV was the very reason why I struggled to get all the 12 trees that event awarded and all their upgrades, be them XLs or XXLs.

 

Yes, and I am finding that changes weekly I had a handle on it, line everything up and get slammed as I see the next set of goals.
I am coming up on the ship, so I thought I would go look at what is needed I really don't care if I could grow it alll, why would I want too???, so new type of game buying and workin' it, I almost made a whole week without growing, then the corn took me down. I will try again soon.

I don't do well in a lot of market, so I am going slow and trying new, that is what makes it fun, just as with a real farm, grow sell and do it all over again.

It does?!? are you sure, I'm thinking of putting in a paved road to the edge, it will make getting the wheelbarrow full of knocked out little critters easier. They really are a handful waking up halfway to the pit.

farmer_broke,
A vary nice read, I thank-you.
I will have to try a week of looking at and doing in EV not just what ever is cutest. Yeah, my plan before was to goof off but now at that point in the game were I need to be paying attention nowand a new challenge begins......

 

I was asked earlier when? responded mid-October.

I plan to be completely ready by mid-October and expect the event to occur after a Halloween event. That should make it mid November the latest.

Tree fruit is definitely being acquired on a market I anticipate sending a farm. Little need to acquire it in massive numbers for the event specifically unless entering into the final competition perhaps. The farm does not have access to maple sap. The buy rate has now been moved up to 50% of the exchange value. And there is difficulty in acquisition. Also, roses are at 80 (EV 113).

Plums are being acquired on that market and that alone will have an effect upon several feed prices. Same with peaches at increased rates. This will also affect feed prices. Surprisingly, there is now a recently introduced tree whose fruit is dropping in price and becoming eligible for donation.

Change in strategy for the mud_pie_man farm:

If tree fruit market prices move to 75% of EV then the farm will have no desire to go. I will sell all needed items in lots of 9,999 to those on the mission. Everything on the farm is for sale up to the moment of donation.

 

Is that you at #21th in the last year?

The winners of Chesnut Festival 2014

I think this year is not much different from the last year. Most people STILL hold a lot of tree fruit in their barn, but only a small part of tree fruits to contribute to TOP XXX.

The increase in the price of animal feed at this time due to the length of the milling work. We did not get any animal feeds when the milling process is canceled.

I do not see the lack of supply of fruit in the market. Just a thought when seeing the tree fruit turnover in this market.

 

Yes, that list does show the farm at number 21. There is a final list where the bots and cheats were removed. And that final list moved the farm to number 19. The farm was at 7 when I left three days before it ended.

Mooboy can correct if wrong also. I believe Mooboy moved up many spots and can share with us how many spots he moved up. I was surprised at the number of cheaters there were in the competition.

Some farms that had not contributed enough had been kicked out. Many resurfaced after bots and cheats were kicked out. My strategy never included cutting this so close and depending on the elimination of bots and cheats to stay there. I don't recommend it.

Agree, many farms do hold tree fruit (and this farms holds even more). We know markets are different. One will pay for it on the mud_pie_man farm's market or not get it. Prices up on this farm's market also.

Even with the list not being the final list, over 90% of the winners were between 144 M and 267 M. Again, I would not play on that playground this year without a minimum of 200M ready to play with. And the prizes didn't matter. The top prize could have been an apple tree and it would not have changed my donation before I left. The baby farm's strategy is to do the same.

 

After the mention of albino bats I looked at my inventory of CR bred animals. A very long time ago I looked into selling them but didn't like the numbers. So I just harvest the CRs and ignore them.

One of my farms has 506 albino bats @ 1600EV, that's halfway to last years donations. If we have a similar request this year, I'm ready. I have lots of other bred animals as well.

The lowest bred critter I have is roaster chickens. At 700EV one would need 2285.7 roasters to complete the main event.

OK, broke, you're clear to post again w/o having to worry about double posting.

 

WOW SuzeeRabbit. I am so happy for you. With just the albino bats you have from the CR that is 506 x 1600 = 809,600.
And you have other breeding animals and are ready.

This is where a little strategy comes in and only if one chooses to use it. Prepared, yes you are if requirements are similar. A choice can be made whether or not to prepare efficiently or not. If the choice is to prepare efficiently then one will sell other breeding animals and buy the albino bat.

My point is that many of us are already prepared. Right now though, we have over three months to reposition our farms in some areas if we choose to do so.

So if indeed there is a general call for breeding animals one will have a choice as to which to donate. BUT if there is a specific animal called for there is no choice and one either donates it or one is out.

I must admit this SuzeeRabbit: If one chooses to prepare efficiently for a general call then most likely this preparation will require several trips to market. (To breed with the purpose of acquiring an albino bat does not seem quite the right thing to do. Power feed can be used much more efficiently. Of course, no right or wrong way but up to each individual.)

Your post is very important for all to understand because the same logic holds true for any category being asked for where the requirement is not specific.

 

Yes There was quiet a Few Bots and Cheaters in the Festival 2014 I moved up at least 150 Places. There was at least over 200 Cheaters in the Game last time.

Many Fruits are needed to Mill Animal Feeds. SillyGuy....There is far more Animal Feeds to Mill compared to last year which is keeping fruit fruit prices high. I believe there is much less fruits in Markets for Sale due to low stocks plus some farmers holding some fruit stocks too for this event.

But to have a chance for Festival Hoedown you would need to spend fair amount of time in the Markets buying bargains plus have loads of CC to Spend too

But it not easy to stock up on fruits in current market conditions as fruits are much pricey than they use to be plus not so many in the markets like it use to be too

 

Maybe the Jumbo stables might come in handy for preparing the general breeding animals too?

My thoughts are:

To put out my orange Jumbo horse and 3 orange Jumbo goats. EV for the Black goat is 2600 and for the Shetland Pony it is 4000. It takes a long time to produce though but they come for the cost of the feed only.
The Pony goes for 10.000 in my mkt and the Albino cost 1300. If I choose to sell the Pony then I can buy 7,7 Albinos and get 12.320 Ev instead of 4000. (I know that I can't buy 0,7 Albino)

The black goat sells at 4000 and if I sell it and buy 3 Albinos instead I will get 4800 EV instead of 2600.

But I might choose to hold on to some of them so that I have some if they call for them specific.

I have not calculated on the time versus other things that might sell better and produce faster.

 

I'm curious how one would cheat at this and what is a "bot"? What could you even hope to gain from cheating in the first place? People are so bizarre sometimes.

Very interesting stuff to read so far.

 

What you describe has been termed exchange farming. You are intentionally producing one item with the express intent of exchanging it to acquire more of for another item. Many players use such a strategy habitually. I agree there is plenty of time for use of this strategy. The market system is used to accomplish what is termed the exchange.

Let's not go too far into this. Nearly all game producers attempt to identify and remove cheats and bots from their gaming. "bot" has been used to abbreviate the word "robot." Bots in the computer industry, whether used for legal or illegal purposes, replicate human activity. In the gaming industry bot use has been used to detract from fairness and is quite undesirable.

Until they were removed, I was moved down 2 places, Mooboy was moved down about 150 places. (Again, thank you Mooboy/Ajjg for the information. I truly did not realize the seriousness of such actions until your disclosure nearly a year ago.) This is only a small illustration of the damage that bot and cheat users cause in this game to us all. BP's removal of suspects is evidence that the company does in fact seek an environment of fairness and is actively participating in enforcement.

There are all sorts of schemes players come up with which are questionable. Play long enough and they will surface. I choose to remain clear of such activity, I hope you will also, and I don't believe we should engage in a detailed discussion of this topic in this thread.

My strategy with regard to those choosing to use bots and cheats is not have a strategy but to trust BP to identify and remove them as I should.

Someone may wish to provide a link to the final standings.