SPREADSHEETS!! -- Anything to do with them.

The purposes for initiating this thread are: (1) to encourage those using spreadsheets to share them and (2) encourage those who may wish to learn more to ask questions regarding their formation and use.

This game provides an excellent source of data for beginners as well as advanced spreadsheet users.

In order not to create a problem for anyone, please do not intentionally or unintentionally cross the fine line between sharing a spreadsheet and data sharing.

 

Yes, I was thinking about starting this thread yesterday while I was sitting around with any electricity. LOL!

data sharing?

 

Both of us realize the value of spreadsheet use. "Data sharing" has been my only concern regarding beginning a thread of this nature. We agree not to do so when we join the game. Perhaps a MOD will correct and clarify given the following:

We both know as one begins to develop the spreadsheet that data is collected and entered into it. I do not feel one would be sharing data when one presents the spreadsheet with sample data. I believe we have a limit! Certainly members of the game team have access to massive amounts of data and do analyze it and form conclusions in regard to event success and event planning.

The game cannot stop either of us from collecting data or analyzing it in any manner we so choose. However, if ones decides to present that massive amount of data collected and demonstrate methods of analysis then ........... hmmmmmmm ...... one may prove themselves guilty of crossing that fine line. Casually doing so, I would not believe there is a problem.

And I personally have no desire to be associated with encouraging data sharing if in doing so one is violating pre-established rules of the game we have agreed to.

 

I'm thoroughly confused...

Aren't we already doing that in the strategy threads?

 

I find that bits and pieces of spreadsheets appear in many locations here. And a lot of the information I regard as elementary and summary data. In our early learning stages of spreadsheets, we did exactly the same sort of things.

We both know the power of spreadsheet use and abuse. Players are here with all sorts of inexperience or experience. I may indeed be totally wrong in my interpretation of the words "data sharing." And I don't feel one will violate such a policy of presentation and analysis provided one does so with the intent of adding to the intellectual ability of others.

I also feel if knowledgeable people get involved with a detailed spreadsheet discussion that we would give the game team something to think about. And we would be moving closer and closer to a perceived fine line.

In a nutshell: If correct in my interpretation, I only wish to make others aware of the environment in which we choose to communicate and assist others in. And there is a limit.

I sincerely hope you will share your wealth of knowledge as always.

 

Well... I'm still confused and have NO clue where that fine line might be.

 

I think that feeling is a good thing, a real good thing. I do not know EXACTLY where that fine line is either and I have always not wanted to believe my interpretation although I see reasons why it would be correct.

A crude example:

Let me present a spreadsheet with columns containing data from my market I may have collected over a period of time. And then I share the same information for 20 other markets in the form of spreadsheets. And then display an analysis computing all sorts of data containing statistical analyses across this entire game. And that data is for every crop, every single breeding animal, everything ... manure included. And I demonstrate exactly how to do it .

If my interpretation is correct regarding "data sharing" the MOD police will appropriately award me with: The Death Sentence in the game.

Now if I present the organization of a specific aspect of the game faqs by way of a spreadsheet making the information more suitable for my purposes then the MOD police should not bother me.

Kinda sense the difference? Somewhere there is a fine line I still believe.

If indeed my interpretation is correct and it may well be entirely unjustified: I find it hard to believe at this time any of us would do it intentionally ... I want to wash my hands of doing anything to encourage "data sharing" if indeed it results in this spreadsheet thread while making others aware of my perceived limit.

SuzeeRabbit, I don't think data sharing would be your intent, I truly do not. I just don't want our hearts to be in the right place and us not knowing what the wrong thing is.

 

I, like you, don't want to do anything illegal. Your example seems to be one market v 20 markets. I think I understand it as an example. From a practical standpoint... That particular example won't really impact the game, as best as I can imagine it.

I may have located the spreadsheets that I mentioned in another thread that were provided by a player. The link was one authorized by the MODs. The date suggests I copied them about two weeks after I started playing. I don't have time to look at them right now. Too busy w/ RL. The woman that provided them, I believe, was Scandinavian. The only data in them was data obtained from the game such as EV, base time, time w/ water, etc. It was up to the individual player to input the market value CCs for their market, etc. I think she also kept an inventory of pens, crops, etc.

My background was more with (My)SQL than with Microsoft, UGH, spreadsheets. I'll try to find time to look at them again. Maybe get them uploaded to Google docs. But they are 3y old. I remember at one point trying to update the decos and maybe one other. But they are very much out of date. She did have some... formulas, isn't that what the calculations are called?

 

This game team better not give me access to all that data! And I'll leave it at that.

I don't have any fear of sharing formulas. This whole spreadsheet sharing can have benefits to many of us using them in the game specifically. And if we are able to do it properly, the benefits of the knowledge will travel with some for the rest of their RL.

Have had success helping several 12 - 15 year olds begin spreadsheet development through this game. This quickly turned into: your mind is your only limit! And they used the game data and ... the benefits go on and on ... Although they are still growing and learning spreadsheet tools, the use of spreadsheets is turning to second nature.

Thanks SuzeeRabbit

We'll see what happens!

 

When I first started playing this game I thought it was a great opportunity to teach kids about math and why we need to understand it aka how it can be used in RL. Lots of opportunities to used basic arithmetic.

Well... then why don't you have them build some spreadsheets for us! And keep them up to date. lol Or would that be considered slave labor?

 

LOL Oh SuzeeRabbit!

Those kids all improved significantly in math using game data. Gave them market tips (and they could not sell it unless they could spell it).

Introduced them to spreadsheets at their own pace. They went on their own from there...helped them as they wanted.
They did not want ccs after a while. They wanted real money.
They talked their parents into buying them computers.
Quite the game and rarely even mention it.
Told them about the Big Stock Market.
Their parents invested a little in them.
They are all now playing the Big Stock Market (with limited success while paying the RL price to learn the market just as the play money price they paid to learn the game market).

And it all began with them visiting me and watching me play with chickens.

Getting those boys to understand the significance in their own lives of helping someone else is ... 10X harder than helping them beginning to understand the power of spreadsheets. I doubt they would share their spreadsheets but I will ask. Some of them are a jumbled mess but they began.

I wish you well with your endeavor SuzeeRabbit and may you enjoy the challenges.

Which direction do we go in here?

 

Couldn't you ask Teddy, Shooger or Neon for a ruling ?
I'd love to be even more effective playing this game and yes it does have a learning/teaching opportunity.
Capitalism is such a wonderful thing

 

@Banjoman

ummmm I believe our MODs are keeping an eye on us as this discussion progresses and will step in to assist us if in doubt. This is a can or worms I really do not want to open.

The act of "data sharing" can create an unfair advantage for some in any online game.

At this point I feel we have openly discussed far more than necessary regarding this issue. We're no where near concern.

How will a spreadsheet help us play this game?

 

Hi farmer_broke

There is no problem with sharing data or spreadsheets, the only issue we would have in the forum is posting links to external sites where they may be located.
As you may be aware spreadsheet can contain harmful macros so we cannot allow the location of such data to be posted on a the public forum, you are quite free to do as you wish with fellow players via private message / IGM.

Also be aware that any information regarding loopholes / cheats or bugs that work to your advantage may breach the T&Cs

 

Thank you Neon-Lights for clarification. With your input I believe we are able to continue productively.

Simply put, spreadsheets are merely a data collection tool that simplifies the analysis of numbers. The analysis leads to interpretations. The collection of data with the purpose being only to collect the data is a complete waste of time. How one uses, organizes, and makes use of the data collected is the sole challenge. Even the time of day one collects the data and enters it into a spreadsheet may prove beneficial. Spreadsheets may be very simply or may be very complex. The most beneficial spreadsheets are kept up to date on a regular basis. Bad data leads to improper results.

Most any spreadsheet is welcome here. Feel free to ask whatever questions involving spreadsheets here and someone will provide an answer.

 

For me Dec and Jan are always my busiest months. Christmas complicates my RL. Stormy weather makes it even more complicated. This year I'm still undergoing treatment, which complicates things further. In other words I don't have much time or energy. Believe me I'd much rather get lost in creating speadsheets than dealing with my RL. But that is not an option. The days I leave home, I'm exhausted when I get home. Sometimes too tired to farm. Other days I'm trying to recover from my excursions.

What next? It's your thread, you decide.

The simplest spreadsheet, for this game, is probably decos. To help people decide which deco items to set out and which to store. Columns to sort by...
if one only harvests once a day, for people w/o machinery
if one only harvests twice a day, for busy people or those w/o machinery
if one harvests every hour of every day for maximum EP, CC, etc.

As mentioned I can try to give you the one I have but it is very out of date and someone else will have to update it.

The question is where to put it. It's more than one page and would be too much to put in this thread as a JPEG. Or maybe not... Lots of JPEG/speadsheets in one thread... messy. And, of course, JPEGs can't be edited in a manner meaningful to this conversation.

Macros is the word I was trying to think of. Simple macros only calculate... base time x water, base time x water x manure, farm totals, etc. Those are the only type I would use.

EDIT: The other first choice would be crops. I would avoid any discussion of buffs or pets initially since the math can be more complicated with them. YOU would end up teaching algebra. Additive v associative, etc. Good opportunity for people to (re)learn what didn't sink in during their school years, tho.

 

Yes, I started to make a spreadsheet about gnomes and comfortfields... times with and without refinements... water...
I do it usually by trial and error though.
I don't really know how all of theses buffs stack up at the end, I am no math whizz after all.

Then I use WI and SG and it becomes interesting when I don't have much time or want to make sure that there is no weeds. If people would know they might actually use more SG this way (could we link an information about comfortfields from the game to the info in the forum when they reach level 60??? not sure which exact). Comfortfields were invented from an earlier team, maybe we could utilise them, make them better. I think they got potential but no priority.

I don't know stuff like server/processor time versus amount of people playing versus RL cost. I would imagine that tree farms are less demanding on the system then people that grow wheat with harvesters and maximum enhancers (+5/field).

Not the forum but the dev team probably has the numbers for people that grow trees or how many specialise in animals??? I would hope that the forum comes up with the ideas and the dev team does the math/finances and fill in the sheet. Then they could share whatever they would like with the forum. I for example don't even want to know the numbers of the other markets. I am perfectly happy with my tiny market and my farm.

I grow Mammut trees sometimes, not very often though. But at the same time the processor time might actually lower.
And I use up the most Suzy/Turbo at Happy tree day, for all those Mammut Trees and it actually gives me a nice amount of EP. Instead of actually really boring amounts of tiny EP, while I need millions of EP by now just to level up. Normal trees still give nothing much on tree day. 5 x 50 is just 250 EP!

I wonder how much processor/server time is needed for experience bonuses (rather more?, run longer?) versus PF (sits in the barn, then is probably used spread out on BBD).

I always wondered why the dev team actually likes these all harvesters that start straight away as rewards better than coupons.
You end up having a lot of harvesters running around the same time, wouldn't it make more sense to spread that out a bit? And wheat and carrot prices are much more likely to come down in price. It all connects that's what I meant to say.

Just use coupons, they are not very straining on the system while they sit in the barn and if people never use them at the end you even get them back.

 

I have seen in other threads where Farmers have shown pictures of their spreadsheets (therefore no formula's shared) but at least this would give one a place to start to replicate the data. This would seem to fit the parameters set forth by Neon.

C'mon I'm a guy and I have to visualize something ! I don't see abstracts too well.

 

If one desires information which does NOT require frequent updating then the use of a chart or table is sufficient. Check the game FAQs. Data is often gathered and organized on a spreadsheet and in actuality one has only a BIG table. There are few if any formulas behind tables.

However, for example, if one desires to review the changes in their farm over time then one may use the power of a spreadsheet to generate a number of tables for quick reference and perform analyses and much easier comparisons.

The following is properly termed a table and the forum has plenty. A table generally DOES NOT and WILL NOT allow for data manipulation. Tables can be quite beneficial and is the limit for many. The following is a table quickly prepared with the table tool in this reply. One may add as may columns or rows as one desires but computations based using table tools are extremely rare. For some this serves their purpose.

Please feel free to share a table.

​	ep	time	w/water
lettuce	1
wheat	1
corn	9