The future of Farmerama -- high players, more land, etc.

This is sort of a spin-off from another thread that wound up getting well off topic. Rather than divert that suggestion more, I am starting this thread for a more general discussion.

The basic question/debate is whether its better to just have more land, etc or if there should be some sort of added "scaling", that is more things that are rewards for higher level players (that everyone who stays will eventually get!!! -- don't forget!) Or just more available sooner to everyone.

There are 2 reasons for parsing things out -- letting people get "stuff" in stages. One is that getting everything at once is overwhelming to new players. Not saying that is always the case, but generally. Second, it serves as a reward for learning the game.

Boredom has 2 parts. One is immediate activity -- other than occasional events/timed challenges, this game will never be truly "exciting" in the way many games -- from the "shoot 'em up" type games to match 3, etc are. All of these are "exciting" because they keep you moving. And, while addicting and fun, they can be wearing. This game is something different.

The other main way to generate interest is to create challenges, challenges that may take time and thinking/effort. FSQ, occasional events, and getting new "stuff" -- these all are rewards for meeting challenges. Remember the excitement you felt when you first got these things? Then, as you go on, things change. One of the more frustrating aspects, for me, and from comments for others as well, is that as you go on, the challenges take a LOT of time and effort, but then don't give much reward. Worse, the biggest rewards -- getting EP,TEP, etc don't mean anything past level 96, because there just is nothing at all left, other than whatever FSQ and/or personal goals you have left (things like save 1,000,000 of whatever crop, etc.).

Farmerama's "answer" to this has been to increase events, but that is frustrating for a couple of reasons. First, getting constant repeated rewards is fun initially, but soon just gets tiring. And, it does not solve the problem of "what now". I still like to collect cloud rows, but honestly, if I did not have the harvester, I would not bother harvesting them all. And, getting new ones really doesn't give me the enjoyment they used to offer. For the business aspect, there is almost no incentive now for me to buy things like powerfeed, supergrow. I mean, why would I spend money when there really is not much left to achieve that "matters"?

Having a new land that is only open to higher level players is not to discriminate against lower level players. It is something new, after all. You have lost nothing. And, these new lands will be there for you when you get to that level. It just continues the challenge aspect, continues the interest in achieving more things as you go on. These limits are no different than offering certain animals and crops to certain levels.

I know that having more land, etc sounds great to most middle level players. You are working hard to achieve still, and it IS a challenge. Making it easier is very, very tempting. But, think about the long term -- particularly the very long term. Say Farmerama offers more land, then what? Initially, you get a nice boost. Having more space allows you to produce more (of whatever -- EP, animals, plants, etc.). For a short while, it is fun. However, very quickly, it just becomes more.. more.. more. If challenges are not increased, it just means you finish the ones we have more quickly and more quickly have no more real challenges or challenges worth completing sooner. Realistically, things still keep being introduced and before long you are right back where you started. Too much stuff, not enough land. Worse, the sheer volume becomes more and more daunting to the truly new players.

Its already hard to complete many events without autoharvest subscriptions or coupons. Events are either so easy that all of us newer players wind up completing them quickly or so daunting that they are just impossible for most without buying items. Neither situation matches what brought most of us here. That is, a relaxing game with light, general challenges and an occasional bit of a quick challenging event. Most of us don't mind spending a little money here and there, but really resent the growing feeling that we HAVE to buy over and over.

We all know that that game needs to make money. That you have stuff for sale is not in dispute, its how things are offered. I have said in the past, that a "cup of coffee" is roughly a good comparison. As an adult, while I don't particularly want to "waste" $30-$40 on a game, at least not on a regular basis, I don't think so much about spending $1-$2.00, even $3.00 here and there. Of course, a part of me knows it really does not make a difference if I am spending $30 in one "pop" or paying $3, 10 times. Psychologically, though, it does matter. Similarly, I am far, far more likely to put down that money when I feel it is for something "extra" or "special" rather than something "required". When it is "required", when I feel it is "required", then I start to say "hey, what happened to the nice 'free' game I enjoyed?". To be honest, when I feel I am forced to buy things to just complete events and so forth, then I don't feel excitement or pleasure, I feel more "cheated".

These are all reasons why I think we do need more land, etc, but that they should only be available at a certain higher level. Part might be available at, say level 70-80. More should be available at 90. Further, why not restart offering items as levels increase? However, unlike most of the later Baha items, crops, there need to be new, challenging FSQ and rewards (and yeah... I like the idea of harvester subscriptions/coupons as big rewards, since most all of us new players can really use these!, but also some things that might just help higher level players). Once I completed the introduction FSQ, I have no real use for many of my higher level crops.

Another advantage to this is that it would open up the possibility of new events geared specifically to higher level players, without just frustrating the lower level players. I would definitely suggest offering paired events, one for newer players (maybe even repeats of older events that these players likely would not have completed) and another for higher players (someone else suggested options -- that would be nice, too).

Doing this would help balance the game more, as well. With the new focus, some people would still hoard gobs of everything (hello broke family ... lol). However, a lot of focus would shift to the new land(s) and events

 

I am level 96, and I completely agree.

I've stopped doing most quests, some parts are just too costly, but with more land it might be a little bit easier, as at this moment, I need the land for the constant events that are taking place.

I have over 2000 trees in my inventory and the animals I never put out, apart from pink chickens and rabbits for the poo. Mostly because they take too long, before I need the land again!

The store houses were a good idea to start with, but since we can't upgrade them at all, it's not a challenge, just a frustrating waiting game.


However,.... if there was ANY chance at all to gain more land... I'd JUMP at the opportunity, and I'd give my entire barn content for it and I'd work on it for months to get it too.

Oh if only... if only! More land....
I doubt however bp will give it to us. I suspect it might take a few more servers to make that happen.

 

The server issue is yet another reason for keeping this a higher level item. Since it won't be open to absolutely everyone at once, the need for server space will be less. Similarly, it will help with events.

PS -- LOVE all those smilies!

 

IMHO - This is important to keeping the game where all will desire to compete in events. Many new players leave the game quickly because of what they see as impossible to achieve events. I have actually been told this by new players I tried to help. The game can only grow its player base by appealing to all levels of players. Likewise, it will keep veteran players by offering worthwhile playing options.

 

I'm not sure I want more land. Why? If we have more land for crops etc., BP will most likely up the amounts of things required for events and quests.
I do, however, drool over the possibility of getting new crops for those of us over level 100. One of my favorite parts of old events & their new crops.... was that we would occasionally get to keep them! I would love it if we could keep basil or chives!!!!! They are gorgeous and I like their growing times.
I am too disappointed with the slower than snail pace of receiving power drills so we can upgrade the storage houses. I also want the arboretum to hold 4 trees per 2x2 square as they do in the game. This way, each arboretum could potentially hold 32 trees!!! Now that would be a huge help in saving space!!

 

I don't want more land, not anymore. I don't believe this will solve the problems you have mentioned in your post Woody. We will always need more of everything(crops, animals, trees)! We can never be satisfied with a certain amount and this is not our fault. With all the -back to back- events, introductions of new content and FSQ it makes sense that we can't keep our barn full!
BP tries to introduce new things to save space and I don't only mean the storage houses. Color upgrades of the pens/workshops have the same purpose! If we have a neon or a pink stall we don't have to place 3 or 4 pens out, just one!

There are not 2 kinds of players newer and higher level. There are also the something between They have passed the stage of trying to figure everything out but they haven't reached the stage of having millions of CC or a full barn of everything. Even some higher level players don't have a full barn anymore. It needs strategy and time(months or even years) to have a lot of goods and be prepared for all the events.
What I am trying to prove is that is idea is kind of risky! You can't have more difficult events for the higher level players and easier for the rest. It's not fair, can you really trust BigPoint that the amounts that will be required for the higher level players will be reasonable? I don't! For this event we need 18.250 lettuce and 14.500 carrots to complete it! These amounts are so big for all players not for the newer ones. So if this was paired like you suggested, higher level players would be asked to donate double!

Never an event is easy nowadays. I know it may seem like it in the start but if we really think about it, we understand that it is not.
I will refer to the previous breeding event that we had to donate fish, geese, cows and dogs. It was a hard event even though we finished it early. It was difficult because we had to already own at least 1000 of each, or less if we were willing to breed. How many players have 1000 of each animal? Not many, especially the newer ones.
So I understand why you say events should be different for high and newer players but I don't think it would work. What would happen with the rewards? Would they be the same for both of them? If yes then it would be unfair for the higher players to donate more and get the same as newer players. And if no, then again it would not be fair because everyone needs to be able to win the same rewards and to have the same items/cloud rows as everyone.

If anyone had told me a few years ago that I would be against of introducing more land, I will have aswered them they are crazy!

 

I don't need more land. By the time I finish activating my Pets and start harvesting, their Buff effect would have expired. Add to it that I'd then be harvesting manually and then you find that the Pets have no value to the Game. Give us back the Game we had in 2010.
No More New Land...

 

While I agree with some of the things in woody's suggestions - I also think that to have two distinctly divided levels of players with an extra field for one group, rather than just one united group of Farmers, (as Arielh has said: "There are not 2 kinds of farmers..."), would really unbalance the game, and that extra field would cause major increases in having to grow crops, animals, etc.!!

*Arielh has made some very good observations, as did Bhodo.*

EDIT: Please "Click to expand" the post below, as the rest of this post was mistakenly added to the quote.

 

This game is the eternal conundrum in itself. As in most games, eventually you achieve all the goals and have no more challenges if you play them long enough. The question of how to challenge, (keep interested), long time players is an eternal question with no easy answer.

There is a different farm game that has tried to solve this problem by adding more land of different types, like Bahama. The problem is the same, too much time and effort required to farm all the crops, trees, and animals resulting in eventual player burn-out.

As a mostly manual farmer, I am stuck in another no win situation. I dread morning harvest and replant/feeding and watering. I no longer get excited about new animals and trees since they just need more space while, as a relatively new player, I am still trying to build a stockpile of the orriginal crops, animals, and trees.

I need more land, but I don't want it because of the added workload that comes with it. I have also reached the point where I choose the events I participate in carefully, due to the workload they require versus the rewards they offer.

If more land were available players could choose whether to use it, or not, but I fear event requirements would simply increase, thus forcing use of the added land. The answer to that would be to restrict the land available for the event, as has been done recently. I don't have the answer to the long term player's problems, but I would hate to lose our forum veterans so I hope a wiser person comes up with a solution. Some good ideas have been presented in this thread.

 

Doc, having been there, I can feel your pain and frustration!!

Your concerns have been mostly addressed by the suggestion of the addition of a Dedicated Tree Orchard with an Automatic harvester built into the field. Since no Crops or animals could be placed in this orchard - there is NO REASON for BP to require any additional crops or animals for Events. And no extra clicking required, either. It would also free up space on our regular fields for higher and lower players that are now using those spaces for essential trees like salt, pheromones, sugar, honey, eggs, milk, feed, etc.etc.etc., just by shifting them over to the Orchard, and so give us back our farms that we love.
We might even be able to breathe that Fresh Farm Air again that we all fell in FOCD with!!

Edit: Doc, your post has made me think more about what you said about too much clicking! There are many other players who have the same problem, too.
This led me to wonder why BP hasn't adjusted the game to fit it's HUGE Growth over the years since it began with manual harvesting.

*BP - maybe it's time to eliminate the need for manual harvesting - since you have added so many new things, and require so much additional clicking for Events!! Manual harvesting has become so difficult that it almost seems cruel to continue to require it. How many may have already left this game because of it, I wonder?!*

As this game has grown and changed, this is one major area that has Not grown in keeping with all the new growth over the years.

Sooo...How about it, BP?? A little relief for the overworked players that don't/cannot pay for something that should be an automatic part of this game by now??

 

I want to clarify a couple of points. First, per the "BP will just add more requirements". If the land is not part of the general mix, is available only to the higher players, then the impact will be far less, not more, than an orchard. Trees are already part of many requirements. This is why adding more trees will tend to "unbalance" the game -- will make early, already established requirements too low and/or force new requirements to be high to match production. I am not necessarily opposed to an orchard, just don't think it will solve any problem. If an orchard is added, then the requirements for regular items will just increase. Also -- not sure if you noticed this, but right now there are more FSQ offered for new players than previously. Some are pretty difficult/daunting, but newbies can complete part of them. The impact is that any new feature, as long as it increases production for existing animals, plants, etc (with existing requirements and needs ) becomes no longer "optional". They become part of the game that becomes "necessary" (or makes people feel it is necessary) to play well.

A new land, with its own set of animals and such, will get away from that problem. Unlike the BEP/TEP issue, though, people could still earn EP. This would just stack on to existing requirements, not create a separate system, since the big point is to have rewards where there are none now. ALSO, and this is VERY important, by having separate requirements, this becomes a truly optional feature. Anyone not wanting to participate can just stay with what we have without any penalty. It will create a new system, but not penalize existing pieces of the game.

I do think we have more than one type of player, more than 2 types of players, but in this case, you do have to set some line.

Per the "too much to harvest manually" -- I agree, and would definitely want either harvester coupons/subscriptions as frequent rewards for the events based on this or, as someone else suggested above for an orchard maybe just have a (full function) auto-harvester built in. That would be a REAL reward worthy of effort! And, I don't think an unreasonable one, particularly if just limited to that land (but even if offered as a reward in the forum of coupons), for putting in the effort to get to the higher level.

Whether you realize it or not, you actually voiced my very argument. Events are VERY hard for newer players, but not at all hard for those who have been here a while. That is pretty much the definition of "two kinds of players", though you are correct that there are not just 2 kinds, the game cannot match every type, just do a bit more than now

See, that is exactly why we need a seperate land that has products not part of any existing quest, event, etc.

You cannot have the same event with different rewards. What was suggested previously by "scaled" rewards (not my suggestion, but cannot remember who's) was that there would be options, maybe "easy, hard" or "easy, medium, hard" with different requirements and different rewards. People could choose which reward they wanted and work towards it. My suggestion was different, but related, that there be an occasional event geared toward higher players -- geared in that it requires high level crops, animals, etc. -- and that has higher level rewards to match. Because it would exclude so many people, I suggested that it could be paired with an easy event, maybe even a repeat of an earlier event (that most long-time players would have already completed, though any who have been here a while, but not progressed much might get the option of , say, still doing the event, but getting SS and PF or EP/BEP instead of the cloud row) OR, if system issues prevent that, the team could create a set of events that would be designed to repeat occasionally. (something along the lines of what many of us hoped the comics might present, but this would only be available when the higher level events were in play).

My current suggestion, to have a separate land with its own items, is along those lines. The point of having it only available to higher level players is that it won't inundate lower players, won't cause "inflation", etc. It will almost be like creating a new farm, but this will be right here.

 

Yes now I understand, and I start to like this idea but I still have some doubts.

So higher level players will have to donate the goods that can be grown in the new land?
Sounds nice now

 

Yes, I think you posted while I was still editing my previous reply (I copied, posted and then edited so as not to double-post). Sorry for the earlier confusion.

 

Νo problem Woody I read your post again and there is no confusion about anything

 

I realize that some newbies will still complain, but if the events feature mostly usable things geared more toward higher level players (including , rather than general EP/TEP givers and such that will never come again), then it won't be much different than having to wait for donkeys or anything else in the game.

Also, if the special events are paired with easier ones, that should help as well. Plus, I am not saying that this replace regular events, just that these new kind be offered occasionally.

 

Sorry, Woody, but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Having an Orchard where we can put our trees simply allows us to put the trees we already have, in abundance, somewhere else. Since no crops or anything else can be grown there, there is No Reason for BP to increase anything. We already shift trees from one field to another all the time - and it hasn't caused BP to raise requirements because the trees have gone to another field. Nor do I agree that it would cause the requirements for regular items to increase...as they are always increasing, with or without a place for our trees.
A dedicated Orchard field would alleviate many of the space problems that already exist.

We do agree that you have some interesting ideas, and as you said - it would be like having another farm. Of course, FOCD would make it a necessity, not an option. And, with more new things, it would not help the existing space problem on our Main farms at all. But it's an interesting idea for the future, and in the future, I most likely could support it.

But wouldn't it be wise to fix the space problems of our main farm, here and now, first??
I can only speak for myself as a level 98 player, but it would drive me to distraction to try to juggle another whole "farm" before the space problems of this one are fixed.

 

In reference to the auto harvest problem. I would suggest a spot on the Tree of Wisdom to unlock with stars the ability to turn on auto harvest permanently as a reward.

 

I am trying to understand why you think it being just an orchard would matter. BP has introduced many new trees along with animals and crops. Each time, requirements for what we have and for the new items have gone up. If they don't, then you get into the problem I mentioned above, where older players have even more stocked barns and new players are just frustrated that they cannot keep up. I am really puzzled why you think it would be any different with an orchard? I am just trying to understand your opinion. It could be that it is just that -- a matter of opinion, which is fine. It just seems as though you have more basis for your opinion than you are giving here and I am interested in how you came to the conclusion to which you came.

 

In one of those long posts, I forgot which one (woody's perhaps ? he has said a lot of very sensible stuff), the fact about being nothing to do once high level/long time player. I think that one of the problems is the fact we all want to do everything NOW. And by demanding and doing so we kinda take away what BP had planed for us, when we are old timers. Hoping for more land, we will reach that point sooner. Or become burnt out in the chase to do so.

Some players complain that there is never enough time do catch up - I don't really understand what they want to catch up. The quests aren't going anywhere, and the events aren't crucial to the game. Sometimes there are huge complains about the prizes aren't worth the effort too. Could be, I do the events for the achievement so that is one aspect I can't really fully understand. But stop and think about it for a sec - why do we need to catch up ? We want to play for a long time, sooner or later we will catch up, or leave to see if the grass is greener on the other side.

I'd love a re-run of some old events. When I signed up the first time there had just been an asparaguses event, I so wanted to do that one. I'd be chuffed to bits if I could. You 100+ people could do a 100+ crop with the same event. And it could be a mixture between harvest and donate. Meaning you would have to actually grow the crop, just not donate it. And some recycling of rewards isn't wrong either. Could be in a choose format, similar to the comics (does anyone actually do those?) I'm sure when my farm is old and runs like a clockwork there is still stuff that I'd like. Be it coupons or power-drills. Actually I like the thought of some tools only for say 100+ to build some special L100+ items. Would give even the highest levels something to moan about (joking ofc)

I also miss some sort of team challenge and a more social aspect of the game. Not quite sure how it should work, but I feel this game needs to become a bit more social. The neighbourhood isn't working to it's fully potential. How can it ? Very few are as lucky as me, and knew people from before. So you just end up with random people. I think the team aspect could be a long-timer-sih thing as well. And it would have to be optional, not everybody want (for different reasons) to be social online.

A last note on that land thingie - I don't want another field I need to check in the morning. I like checking in on my game in the morning, but it has to be something I can do quickly. More fields, more time - auto harvest or not.

 

Thank you, woody, for the opportunity to clarify that point.

The simple answer is: Because this Orchard does NOT introduce any new trees, or anything new at all.
It is simply a place to put our existing trees that are cluttering up our existing fields, thus freeing up those spaces and allowing us easier harvesting and organization.

We do agree that when BP introduces NEW things they do then up the requirements to take that into consideration.

Hope that answers your question...

Edit: woody, there is something else I'd like to clarify, too.
Our ideas are Not in opposition to one another...they are just different solutions for different problems.

The Orchard helps to resolve the very pressing Space problem that we've had for a long time...and the New Land that you propose resolves a lot of difficulties for higher level players.

IMHO, they are both reasonable solutions for two different problems.
It is simply my opinion that the ongoing and serious space problem should be resolved first before adding any more new features...